Fear Is Data

Bart Bailey: If they're near misses, near misses. This is near misses around incidents, near misses around accidents. Is zero, fear is present. It's impossible to work for a utility company. It's impossible to work for manufacturing. It's impossible to have a healthcare system, and your near misses are zero. That's literally impossible. Devon Morris: This is the Lagging Team. Falling behind is a position, not a verdict. Today's episode: Fear is data. Welcome, welcome everybody to another episode. I have an absolutely another amazing guest here. His name is Bart Bailey. Bart Bailey has led people where a mistake doesn't just cost a deadline; it costs somebody's safety on a plate for on a power grid, today he runs Courage to Care, and he wrote, "It's in our Bones." Most leaders think fear is an actual tool. Bart has seen what act what it actually does to a team, especially when that team's behind. You know, me and Bart kind of met just through LinkedIn, and we connected years ago, right? We're a member of the same fraternity. You know, he's a little older than me in that fraternity, so much respect due. But I, I thank you for joining the show, Bart. And what I want to do is just get us going right in because I think there's going to be a lot of value here. Here's what I keep coming back to: when a team falls behind, a lot of leaders reach for fear as their first tool, and then they call it urgency. We both know that's not really a plan. I think it's a feeling around some deadline. So my question for you is this: Take me to a room that you actually ran when the team was behind, and what did fear look like in that room? Bart Bailey: Yeah, yeah, Devon. You know, it's it's it's a honor and privilege privilege one to be sitting in the space with you, right? We talk about this technology, and we could be across the world actually and have these dialogs. But I want to answer the question. I want to give some context, right? So, and I'm giving you two different situations. One is actually the plate floor. Actually, I'm gonna go even further back at Harley-Davidson. You know, there was a time where I could think about a shift where we were behind, right? And you want to hit your numbers. You want to hit your numbers. It was like about 210 off of every shift, right? You wanted to have that many bikes come off the line, and so there was an issue with one. We were behind, but it was related to a safety issue, right? And so sometimes, and I'm gonna add some other layers to it because of the way I am built, if I'm walking the floor, it presents this image. If you don't know me, you may start to create a story and a narrative, right? Oh shoot, we got to fix this thing quickly because he's coming, right? Right? But that's not even how I operate. I'm coming to be be curious to engage with you in a dialog around what do we need to do to get back online, right? It's not you. Better get this back online. But most people, again, if you don't know and if you haven't created that relationship between the folks on the shop floor and the leaders, you can have a non-positive image of a leader, right? So, mind you, lines down. I come around. I'm asking, trying to figure out what's going on. Do we need to get maintenance in to fix some some piece of equipment so we can get back online? And so I'm noticing, and this is I'm gonna give some more context. This is in York, Pennsylvania. I am one of two black supervisors, and so there's this. I can see it in the body, right? It's like, oh shoot! And and I've been there working with them for a time, and I make a presence to try and get to know people. But still, in those situations, the line is down. That means everybody is down, and this employee is is kind of. I can see it in their body that they're feeling a little uncomfortable about my presence and my questions. Devon Morris: Okay, Bart Bailey: and so, you know, you think about that. One, you got you got dollars tied to every minute you're down, right? And then I'm showing up asking questions and trying to figure out if we need to get maintenance to get the line back on. That fear was going to show up and be non-productive, right? If I didn't create a space for this person to just be honest and say, "Well, this is what happened, this is how this happened," and yes, we need maintenance. If they closed up, it was only going to extend the time down, right? And the likelihood that we would hit our numbers was unlikely. However, you know, I. I like. I'm not going to shapeshift. I can't make myself smaller. I am. I who I am, dark skinned black male. So, but what I did say was, "Hey, tell me what happened, and and and how do we get back on pace? Do I need to get maintenance?" And they were like, "Nah, we got it." And so they actually worked it out and got us back online. We still did not hit the 210. I think we were like 204 for that shift, which isn't bad, right? But you want to make sure you're still doing the right thing so that the quality coming off, you met the quality because you could build the 210, but the quality of the bike is jacked up, and so then you got to redo all these bad bikes, and so so that's one example. The other one, I'll go back to the utility experience, and so I worked for the utility company for a long time. And and again, I never, I didn't come up through the ranks as a lineman, right? But I went through all the training to do line work, and so we did. And I was one of the guys when we did we were going to do storm restoration even outside of our service territory. So I think about these aspects of fear and how that shows up in those spaces when you you you have to trust each other in those situations, right? Because number one, you got wires down. You don't know if they're energized or not energized because, like you said in the beginning, somebody will not be going home. Devon Morris: Yeah, Bart Bailey: right. And so now you're out there and you see families coming out. They're trying to see how long they're going to be out of power. And so now you have this. I don't know if it's it's not fear, but this urgency to help these folks because they've been out of power. You don't you don't know what's inside that house. You don't know if somebody is on life support. You don't know what's going on. So you want to make sure that you're operating to at the best of your ability to get them back in power. But one of the things that will show up is, and I would say, is is a is a fear from a standpoint of safety that is data, right? So, if I don't have a certain level of fear, and I'm just going around and trying to move wires, and I haven't put on my personal protective equipment, I could die. Devon Morris: Yeah, yeah, Bart Bailey: right. And so I need to have some level of conscious fear to say I got to put my rubber gloves on, my leather gloves on. I have to test and ground to ensure we can work on this work safely. Then we can do the work, right? So, and in terms of being behind in that situation, you know, if there's been some communication to the communities where that oh you're back in lights at 2 o'clock, right? And we're sitting there and we just showed up at 10 o'clock and we're like shoot we got four hours worth of work. They it ain't gonna be 2 o'clock, right? But but there's this this tension right that says okay what can we do and can we get some of these folks back in lights and then they then the you know the distribution center can communicate that some are going to be restored before two, and they can update them and say some are going to restore restore at three four whatever right Devon Morris: yeah Bart Bailey: so I say those are two kind of examples where fear is data. Devon Morris: Yeah, yeah. Bart Bailey: and then what do you do with that data right Devon Morris: you know, you you you said something that a lot of us don't deal with daily. You know, somebody like me, for example, I don't die if something goes wrong. And so, when you think about, you know, almost two different types of fear, where there's a fear that if you don't do the job right, you don't put any safety equipment. You could harm yourself. You may not go home, right? Can you tell me a little bit more about that? Because when a person's life is on the line, I guess there's a healthy element to fear to make sure that you do the right things, and you know, you definitely as alignment, as someone who is a supervisor, someone who is almost responsible for making people, making sure people make it home, even in how you feel, right? Can you tell me a little bit about that so the audience understands and knows? Because a lot of us don't deal with that on a daily basis. We just see our lights come back on. Bart Bailey: Yeah, yeah. You know, I I would say some of my best learning, and I'm gonna link a couple things together in this, in your question. Bart Bailey: So that was my first job out of out of college, and I entered in a program called the cadet program, where you were in customer service, you were in the call center, billing center, collection center, and then I ended up in operations. And there was a guy that came by past my desk at one point. He knew I was going in operations. Hey, I'm gonna pick you up tomorrow. You're gonna learn this business. Devon Morris: Oh, Bart Bailey: it was white male, white male, and I was like, I don't know what he's talking about. He's like, I'm picking you up. I'm like, well, we're gonna talk about this pickup. So, but but but what I'll share with you, Bob Haluki was his name, and he spent 18 months, 18 months every day, teaching me the utility industry. Devon Morris: Wow! Bart Bailey: And I'm talking about line work, right? And so, there would be a storm, and lights would go out, and I'd be with him, and he'd say, "Okay, well, how do we restore this power?" And I would say it right. I would draw it, say it, you know, outline it, say where the crews were going. He's like, no, that's wrong. Do it again. Do it again, right? And so his thing was he wanted to make sure I understood the work as best as possible as not being a lineman. And so the backup of that is because if I don't, if I'm the supervisor, I'm directing people. Somebody could die, right? And so I took that to the nth degree. So if we were doing an upgrade for a development, I would have. So where I'm at right now is underground. You can under. You have underground developments, overhead developments. I'm gonna ride this probably 3, 4, 5 times before we actually do the work. Devon Morris: Okay, Bart Bailey: I'm gonna know every they call it switchgear transformer open points. Open points are where your systems come from, right, and where you can test and ground basically to make it safe. And so, I'm gonna I'm gonna do more than the average person because I didn't come from that background, right? To ensure, and and and and you can call it fear, whatever you want to call it, but but there's a level of fear because I don't want to be calling somebody's loved one to say your your husband or your wife isn't coming home. Devon Morris: Yeah, Bart Bailey: I'm not making that call, right? That's not going to happen, and so, you know, it was a it was incumbent upon me to make sure that I was aware of the potential hazards. Devon Morris: It it sounds that's that's interesting because you you you made a connection there, and and I'm I'm going back to the 18 months, right? Because you said that you know you don't know if it's called fear, but it's probably called care. Because at the end of the day, if that guy didn't care, he would have spent that kind of 18 months with you, and then that helped to establish a foundation of care for you, and then you just took it to the next level. Can can you distinguish for me that difference between actually caring and fear? Bart Bailey: So, man, I could take that that that what you just threw out there in a couple different ways. So I'm hoping for I'll link it this way, right? And so there's a friend of mine, an author, Resmaa Menakem. He he wrote the book My Grandmother's Hands. Devon Morris: Okay. Bart Bailey: And now I'm gonna switch it, and I'm gonna come and I'm gonna bring it back. But he talks about fear that shows up in our community that hinders our ability to connect with other human beings. And what he challenges people is, can you choose integrity over fear? Right. And I'm just going to say this last piece, and then I'm come back to your the central point of your question. In many, in many instances where we have divisiveness, fear is running rampant, and there's no integrity. There's no space for the dignity of somebody else's humanity. So your question around the connection between fear and care, I think, is essential, right? You know, I'm not going to tell people not to be afraid. I'm not going to tell people not to see where fear shows up. You should, Devon Morris: yeah. Bart Bailey: But can you be curious about it enough to care for this other person's humanity? Devon Morris: Yeah. Bart Bailey: Right. And so, if we come back to teams, and I could use, I could go to a Pee Wee football practice today, and you you see this kid on the sideline, and they can do some tackle exercise, and this one small little guy, he's like, "Ooh, man, we got to do this tackle thing. I don't want to do this tackle thing, right now. How can I walk over to him, you know, with the mother's permission, and say, 'Hey, can I can I have a conversation with your son, because I I can show him the technique to take down the biggest kid out there. The big kid cannot get as low as him. It's impossible, right? And all he has to do is take his his knees out, his ankles out, form good form, and he's got it, and he will not get hurt, right? So sometimes it goes back to the conversation that we have, giving that person the confidence, and that's what that guy did for me in 18 months to teach me how to do the job. And so, if I care enough in that scenario I gave you with the little league football, care enough to show this young person with the proper. Technique, getting low, keeping your head up, and rapping. Right, you're going to tackle anybody. Don't worry about how big they are. Right, and so it comes back to that care. I think it is essential to link care to fear and dignity to your humanity and somebody else's. Devon Morris: Now, here's the deal. I'm not. I'm not saying this. This is you as a leader, right? But you've seen leaders who substitute fear when the numbers start to slip, when those timelines start to slip, right? What's the difference that you see between a leader that is using that fear versus one who cares like yourself. Bart Bailey: Yeah. So, you know, Devon, what I do know is that you, you, you, from what what I have seen, you have a firm understanding of the stock market. Okay, you have a firm understanding of revenue and the numbers. You can get numbers. I literally can force a situation and get the numbers I want right now. I could force and get clients I want right now. But what I will say is, that's not sustainable. It's not. I mean, it's almost as if you know you think about partnerships, friendships, whatever you want to call it. You can hang out with somebody, have a great time, like exceptional. Be like, man, that was amazing. But you, at the end of the day, at the end of the day, that that hanging out with that person, you don't know nothing about Devon Morris: them, Bart Bailey: right? You had an amazing time. Food was great, drinks were great. The whole time was great, and you're like, man, I don't even know their phone number. That was cool. I don't know nothing about them, but we had a good time hanging out. That's not sustainable, right? And so the fear. I know plenty of people who have chosen fear to lead, and the turnover in their departments are extremely high. The the employee satisfaction is horrible, but they can get the numbers for a little while, but it's not sustainable because because people don't leave companies; they leave bad leaders, right? And so, if if you if you can do something in an environment where, yep, our backs are against the wall, there's some things we need to do. Let me hear what you think we should do to move forward. And I'm and I'm I'm I'm consciously going to ask my team first, even though I may have my own idea. But if I show up with my own idea, they're just going to be like, we're going to do what Bart says. But I want to bring their voice into the space and be like, okay, that's cool. And what about this? Because I I think maybe we can marry these two things to get that work done. They presented the solution. They're already bought in. I believe in the solution. Now let's move forward. Right, the likelihood of that being sustainable and them taking ownership is greater than me forcing them to do something. Devon Morris: That's an amazing distinction. You said that people leave bad leaders. Talk to me a little more about that because it's a hinge point, man. So, so tell me a little bit more. Bart Bailey: Yeah, you know if I started asking you questions or or anybody who's who's listening in on this, I'm I'm 58. You know, I got 1990. I graduated from college, so that's a lot of years. 36 years in the work environment, something like that, right? And so, if I were to sit here and think about the bad leaders and the companies I left for bad leaders, I can literally picture their face, literally, right? And I know anybody who's listening, and if they said really thought about it, I left X organization because of that leader. You can picture their face, their body language, the way they spoke to you, the way they walked up and down the hall. Like you, you got it, Devon Morris: yeah, Bart Bailey: right. Because they leave imprints, right? And you may have loved the organization. You may have loved the mission. You you joined the company. You interviewed because you saw the name of the company. You're like, "Ooh, I love their, I love their vision. I love their mission. I love their the values." Yeah. You didn't leave because you didn't like the company. You left because this leader was horrible, right? And and the and the unfortunate thing is that. In some of those instances, because of the potential power of that leader, there was no way of going around. You weren't going to call HR and say, "Hey, can you get rid of this leader?" They would be like, "Yeah, no, no, right." In most organizations, besides a 360 is the only feedback you're going to give about that leader, right? Nobody's really doing 30, 60, 90 days of checking and say, "Hey, has this job aligned with how we interviewed you? Has this job, has the leader done the onboarding as we told you were going to happen? Has this has has this position matched up with what we told you?" And nobody's doing that really. Very few firms are doing that, and so it makes it hard to navigate those spaces. And typically, your only option is to look for something else. Devon Morris: So then, as you say that, I want to make sure that the audience understands. I can explain them to them what it is. But can you tell us what a 360 is? Bart Bailey: Got you. Okay. Okay. Okay. Cool. So, so some organizations will, and and you can, you know, depending on where you are. But so some of the organizations I work for, I could, for my employees, ask for 360s, right? And that 360 is a 360 review, meaning your colleagues will give you feedback. A leader may give you feedback, and then if you have people that report to you, they'll give you feedback around your your style, your management, the way you lead, or just overall feedback around how you interact with somebody. Right, and so that's what a 360 feedback is. Devon Morris: Okay, all right. I just wanted to make sure people knew because you know you throw out the terms, man, and people just be like, "Oh, I don't know what that is." Even though they go look it up, man, they go look it up real quick, but then they don't, right? So then it's like, okay, they didn't miss that whole point, right? Um, so so again, feedback is really really important. So then you you you you talked about the floor and the the line being down at some point, and and I want to understand what's the difference between urgency and fear from the sport perspective. Bart Bailey: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's a thin line, right? I I think urgency is healthy. You know, there's a there's a let's say for an assembly or even at our core where you're talking about we were making these sheets of metal, these thick sheets that is called a plate facility, and so you have molten metal right now. There's no rush on molten metal, but you have a time frame. You know, once it hits a certain temperature, you start to pour. You get the plate cools, and then you you kind of smooth it out, and then there's some polishing that happens. Now, there's certain numbers if you're doing it right. There's certain numbers of plate you should have off of every shift, and you know if you're behind in putting in the raw metal to make the molten metal, then you're already feeling that urgency. Like, but you can't just be like, okay, we're going to turn it up, right, and melt it fast. You can't do that, but there's other things you can do, and you'll feel that urgency, right? But hopefully, with the urgency, you're paying more attention to the process because it's all about the process. And I would say that that that for anything, if you if you find that urgency and you are not focused on the process, the likelihood of something non-positive happening is greater, right? Because I'm I'm in that urgent mode, that urgent rhythm, so I need to be paying more closer attention, and so I'll link in some human performance stuff around that, right? So, if you work for an organization that has, you know, standard operating procedures, you have a checklist that you follow to get work done. You want to make sure you're following those every day, right? Now, some people, because of urgency, you'd be like, "Oh well, I can just shortcut this thing because to push it through, and so that fear could be healthy to say, "Nah, I better not do that," right? Because if I do that, and we had it sometimes, even at Alcoa, you end up with a situation where the now the molten metal is not following the process, and it literally hits the floor. Now you got to stop the whole process, and then you got to clean up this molten metal that's on the ground, right? And we we had that about two times, and that was pretty pretty. It was wild, and so you got to clean that up. And same thing could happen at a utility company, right? If you you follow the process of. Test, put the grounds on test, and then you can do the work, right? And even in that process, if you're not paying attention, you're rushing because of urgency to get these people back in lights. You know, just the way you do the construction, you could have done something wrong when you did not follow the the standard operating procedures, the processes. So you have to if you have that urgency, and and that mode showing up, that healthy level of fear, I would hope, would reinforce. Let me make sure we're following the standards, right? So that's what I would say, right? You know, because if we get into that just urgency without a healthy level of fear, the opportunity for mistakes to happen because all of us do task in one of three performance modes, and these are human performance modes. So the first one is knowledge base, right? So knowledge base is basically I'm guessing I got a 50-50 shot at this thing. I really don't know. I don't really have the knowledge around it, so I'm I'm guessing. Devon Morris: Yeah. Bart Bailey: So it's knowledge-based. Rule-based, it goes up to like one in one in 100 chance of an error. Rule-based is a checklist. I follow the checklist. As long as I follow the checklist, I'm good. Skill-based. I've been doing it so long. It's like tying my shoes, right? So I don't even have to think about it. Boom, tie the shoes, got it. And so anything we do is going to fall into skill, knowledge, and rule base. Now, mind you, when you layer that urgency pressure over top of that, the error rate is going to go up. Even in skill base, right? Even in skill base, I tie my shoes every day, but I'm rushing to get out. Now I'm tied them all wrong, and I end up tripping, right? So, so just, just so those things show up. Devon Morris: So I'm curious, man, because this I've never experienced this before, Bart. When molten metal hits the floor, and you have to go and you have to clean that up, man. Because you know, I literally, I kid you not, Bart. I was looking at a video today about, and it was molten metal, right? Being you know taken across the floor, and they was talking about moisture and water. So I'm just like, whoa, time out, time out. Bart Bailey: Listen, whoever's watching, you probably can find it. And I got some real stuff from. I shouldn't still have it, but I got it from water. In those situations, is explosive. Yeah, explosive, right? So, so, so typically in in our facilities, there was no water where where you were because you you could have excursions where the molten's going to hit the floor. So you kind of knew that that could happen. So you better not have any water around there. Devon Morris: Yeah. Bart Bailey: But it still is is it's intense because you got cameras and you hit this you know hit you hit this alarm that shuts the the flow down, but whatever is in the trough is still going to come out of the trough and continue to hit the floor. Yeah, and so you you have your steel toes, but in in those environments, you also had it's a it's a it doesn't they they burn, but your boots have a sort of a resistance. Devon Morris: Yeah, so Bart Bailey: if you have to walk across it, you can get across it really quickly, but you can't stand there else. You're going to get up and fire, right? But it allows you to do what you need to do, right? So in those situations, you want to make sure you stop it, and then you just allow it to cool, and then you can get it up off the ground because you're not going to mess with it when it's when it's still molten and hot, but the the most important thing is to stop the flow. And you typically, in in those environments, you can do it pretty quickly. Where you're not going to have more than you know a yard or so of this this metal on the ground. Devon Morris: You said a yard. You talking about a yard stick? You talking about a yard outside, man? What are you talking about, man? Because I I'm under the impression that you you talking about a yard outside. Tell me the difference. Yes. Oh yeah. Bart Bailey: Yeah. I mean, it's still a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot. Devon Morris: So so then when when when when you know I know there's all kinds of seizures and things that you do, processes. I get it, right? When something like that happens, man, do you have like after-action reviews, retros? Bart Bailey: Oh yeah, Devon Morris: you talk about it. How does that work, man? Bart Bailey: Yeah, yeah. So there's definitely going to be an after-action review, and and we have cameras on all the on all the all the equipment. So one is you got it documented in video, and then you want the employee to say, "Well, what happened?" Right? Because again, you talk about standard operating procedures, right? So did we follow the process? Were. You know, it was a trough that brings that metal down to the situation. Was the material used in the trough the the appropriate right? Because you can, at least at that facility, you could end up with something that was out of date. I'll put it that way, right? Because you didn't get your new inventory. We were using some old inventory, right? So you're going to definitely do the after-action review to find out what happened, right? And again, you know, a good number of those times is not the employee, right? And so, what what were the systems and processes that led to this this error, right? Even when I said in the beginning about knowledge base, rule based, and skill based, even if I'm doing those procedures or or I'm doing those tasks in one of those three performance modes, what can also show up is what were the systems that hindered my ability to do the work, right? So we definitely want to do the after action review to reduce the possibility of this reoccurring. Devon Morris: Okay, no, that that makes sense. Yeah, I'm still thinking about the yard of molten metal. He Bart Bailey: said, "He said, 'Are you talking about a yard? Stick a yard. I'm talking about a yard. I'm talking about a yard. So three. What is that? Three feet. Yeah, yeah. Three feet. Devon Morris: So here's here's here's a question, right? What stops getting reported when a when a team feels afraid, though? Bart Bailey: You said what stuff is getting reported? Devon Morris: What stops getting reported on a when a team feels afraid? Bart Bailey: So, so I'm gonna answer it differently. Devon Morris: Okay. Bart Bailey: The way when you the way and I so I work in a my company is you know we work in a couple different spaces. We do what I say is human thriving, right? And so, what's getting in the way of human thriving? So it could be some OD work, it could be some coaching work, it could be, you know, around literally around this fear and bias and what's showing up. So, depending on the organization, if it's manufacturing, it could be a healthcare system. But some organization has a system that involves people. I will know instantly if fears in that organization, if they're near misses, near misses. This is near misses around incidents, near misses around accidents. Is zero, fear is present. It's impossible to work for a utility company. It's impossible to work for manufacturing. It's impossible to have a healthcare system, and your near misses are zero. That's literally impossible. Devon Morris: Oh yeah, you're not talking about the misses. You're talking about the near misses? So I could be zero deaths, right? I could have zero deaths. Yep. But then, how many situations did did we get to where that could have happened? Those are going to exist regardless. Bart Bailey: Have to. They have to. We're human beings. Devon Morris: Wow. So then the question is: Do how do you deal with leadership when you see that? Bart Bailey: So I'll show them the data, because sometimes what you have is, you know, they get so many reports they don't even pay attention to. They just don't, right? Unless unless there's, and and you'll find out quickly. Unless there's the leader of safety is vocal. is honored, is trusted, is valued. Then everybody else knows because the leader of safety will like, hey, you know, these these zero near misses don't something doesn't seem right, right? And so you you can do it depending on the organization. You could do some, you know, some some some Lean observations. You can do kaizens. You could do a whole bunch of things to kind of figure out what's going on in this area, this department. But ultimately, you're trying to find out from the employees why aren't you speaking up? Okay, Devon Morris: and go ahead. Finish, finish, finish your thought. Bart Bailey: Yeah, yeah. Why aren't you speaking up? And what's happening in this area? And they may say, Yeah, you know, we just don't report it, or we've been told blah blah blah, whatever, right? And so then you start to work with the old whole organization around system, culture, structure, and with that leader to say, hey, if we don't report these near misses, the the the opportunity for something significant to happen could be severe, and you are going to own it. Devon Morris: Yeah, that's definitely a huge difference. Now you said a term in there that I want to make sure that you define. Right, because again, he's working. What's the kaizen, man? What's the kaizen? Bart Bailey: Yeah, yeah. I I knew you were gonna catch me on that one. So, so so folks may be familiar with Six Sigma, Lean Thinking, all that kind of stuff. But the kaizen comes from the Toyota Production System. Toyota Production. does did and they do and other organizations that take that work on do kaizens. Kaizens are are opportunity to say, hey, we're going to go into this area. We're going to do some observations. We're going to do close in observations. Talk to employees. We're going to pull back and look at the entire process. We're going to look at the SOPs. Wait, and we may, and it feels a little uncomfortable for certain people. But we may say that the SOP says if we do this, this, and this, it should take three minutes. So we may even come in there with a stopwatch and say, "Does it really take three minutes?" No, it takes three minutes and 15 seconds. And so we may need to go back and update the SOP because to do it safely, to do it properly, this is how long it takes. So the kaizen allows you to open up the process and really explore and dissect and say where the gaps, where how can we improve this process, how can we make it more realistic, and so one of it is to eliminate waste in the system. Devon Morris: The Bart Bailey: other two, the other one is to improve safety standards, and the third is to improve the process overall and make sure it's realistic and easily sustainable for any employee. Right. And so, the kaizen is basically to do an observation and give feedback around a process. Devon Morris: So then, as you go into organizations and you're working with them through ultimately trying to make things better, where do you see some of those breakdowns happening within their systems, you know. Bart Bailey: Yeah, yeah. You know, good question. You know, it can show up in a number of ways. So I'll put it this way, and this is kind of a broad stroke. Devon Morris: Okay. Bart Bailey: The I would say overall, I love it when organizations have their vision, mission, and values on the wall. I love it. And what I'll ask organizations and is, I want you to share with me how these values show up in day-to-day interactions, right? And let's say they say, you know, whatever integrity, teamwork, whatever. And then I say, okay, well, what does that look like in behaviors? And they'll tell me how they look like and behaviors, and then I say, "Do you have competencies around that? How are you holding people accountable?" And they'll be like, "Ah, no, yeah, we really didn't get the competencies yet." And typically, that thing right there also shows up on the shop floor, out in the field, where folks are like, "Yeah, we're having some problems with, you know, real team working together, huh? But it's on the hallway that that's a value, yeah. But we don't know what that looks like. So, so you don't have anybody modeling that behavior. You don't. You're not holding each other accountable for that behavior, right? I love it when people say teamwork and collaboration. And Devon, I'll tell you this: in my opinion, and in my experience with the clients I've worked with, and even in playing sports, many people many people don't really practice teamwork and collaboration. Nor do we really learn what it means. Every team that I was growing up, from Pee Wee to college, it was the coach do what the coach told you to do, and do with the team captain. That's not collaboration. That's not right. If you on the four ball, you know, you on a relay team, right? Your your job is to get the stick, run around that track, hand the stick, right? I couldn't say, well, you know what? I think I want to carry my left hand, and I want to hand it to you in your right hand. Why? Because my right shoulder hurts a little bit. There was no discussion. Get the stick and run, right? And so you think about that on on a team you played on football team. Like, hey, you know, depending on where you were, if you was just. You know, you're the receiver. You're not a captain, but you notice something. You're like, oh man, I got there's a there's a you know seam here. Depending on your team, you couldn't go to the coach and be like, hey, how about we run this play? Devon Morris: Yeah, Bart Bailey: be like, man, what? No, you line up when the ball's high. Run the play. I told you to run right, and so it's not really collaboration and teamwork, and that's in general, right? If I think about my number of years being on teams, whether I was a captain or whatever, it wasn't collaboration. And then even in the work environment, how often do we pay attention to that quiet person who's really listening, really listening? To be like, "Hey, can you tell me what you heard us talking about all day?" Nah, the meeting ends. They they really they got the answer, but then nobody asked them. Nobody, you know, and we don't. Yeah, right. So, so I so the gaps typically show up in the difference between what we put on the wall and the actual behaviors on the shop floor, the actual behaviors out in the field. Do are these values lived, and how are they lived throughout the organization? Devon Morris: So then, I would love for you to distinguish me because we we talked two terms. You you mentioned waste. You didn't mention it in waste. I'm not gonna go there with you on that, so we're gonna put that to the side, right? But I'm curious, man. What do you feel the difference between teamwork and collaboration is? Are they just roughly the same thing? Bart Bailey: No, they're not. So teamwork, you know, and I've done some stuff with actually literally high school folks, a football team. It was I enjoyed that teamwork. I'll put it this way: I look at it from the standpoint of having somebody's back, and that's that was my hitting also with with this young high school football team. I said, "What does it mean to have someone's back?" And I had interviewed a bunch of my friends who played professional football and and other sports too, and I asked them, "What does it mean to have somebody's back? What does it mean to them to be on a team?" And so for me, teamwork is the ability to have somebody's back, being willing to fill in the gaps when I may be a little off, being willing to uplift and encourage each other, right? That's a little bit different, right? That's having somebody's back. Collaboration is the ability to understand the both end, right? So I may have this vision to get X Y Z done, Dev. You're coming. You'd be like, "Hey, Bart, what about this thing?" And my my the collaboration is my ability to affirm what you said, listen to what you said, process, and understand the benefits of what you said. Then I'm not gonna I'm not going to diminish my thought. I'm going to say, well, this is my perspective around that thing. How might we combine these two, collaborate around these two to get that thing done? Devon Morris: Yeah. Bart Bailey: Right. So that's different than having somebody's back. Teamwork is to have somebody's back. The collaboration piece is how do we get work done? How do we share ideas with each other in a way that honors each other's dignity and humanity? Devon Morris: When you say that, it just takes me back to where we began, right? And so, I'm really curious, man. What those beginnings for you? Because one of the things that you mentioned is teamwork, having somebody's back. There's a level of care that's in there, right? And so I'm really curious: where did this care thing come up inside of you? Because I see it as a through line through everything that you're doing, it doesn't even matter what it is. Sports, it's work. It's there's a through line of care that's happening all the way through. Can you tell us a little bit about the origins of that in you? Bart Bailey: This, this is wild. I wish I could. I wish I could show. Your question is is like the timing of it is interesting. So this week has been a really what I would say reflective, nourishing week. The last three days, today's Friday. The last three days, I've been on Zooms, kind of back to back with some new friends, some old friends, and just connecting. And your question leads into how I'm going to respond to it as well, because we've been having these dialogs. And so, I'm gonna I'm gonna share a few things and then get right to your to answering the question. So this care theme, I hold conversations with. Men of color, and we're talking about our health, right? And I'm gonna say why I do it in a second. It's every month, and and we end up talking about stuff. And I'm like, hey, did you tell your doctor? And they're like, nah. I'm like, well, you gotta tell your doctor. Don't come on here talking about it, and you ain't told your doctor, right? And so we have these conversations that we typically won't have, right? We sit in our men's cave and and do whatever we do there, but when we connect in community, we start to share and open up. If it's if if we feel safe enough to do that, right? We can be vulnerable. Devon Morris: I'm Bart Bailey: I'm the advisor for the Black Student Union at the local high school, and I'm watching these young folks and how they're navigating, and I'm asking them similar questions around. Hey, you said this thing, but I'm noticing something else in your body. What is happening in your body in this moment, right? And so they start to open up a little bit different. So all of that to say, you know, I've shared people who know me and follow me on Facebook. I share shared my journey with type two diabetes. I was diagnosed October of 2024, right? And I've been working it. My A1Cs is where it's supposed to be, but I share it because what I've noticed is folks will send me a message be like, "Yeah, I got that same thing. I'm dealing with that same thing, right?" And and I was on a call right before this one where people are wondering around how does diabetes fall into now at 58, we're watching our elders deal with dementia and Alzheimer's, and like so, so I'm in it to say, how can I share that with my communities that this diabetes may be affecting our elders? And like, let's talk about it, right? So, so if I if I get back to the root of your question, you may. I'm the author of the book. It's in Our Bones. The very first opening is about my mom. Devon Morris: Okay. Bart Bailey: And one of the things about her there's a whole bunch, but one of the things about her, and she did this with me and my sister. She didn't believe in spankings, but what she did, her thing was, well, why did you do that thing? Tell me what you thought was going to happen. Now that that other thing happened, what are you going to do about it? Oh, I can see that you're upset. How long are you going to be upset because the longer you're upset, the more the more you are letting go of your own power. Devon, me and my sister be like, "Look, can we just get a spanking?" All these daggone questions is too much. But but what she was doing, she was training us to care enough about our own humanity and the and the actions that we have may have had on somebody else that were non positive to own them, and then care enough about that other person's humanity to go fix that thing, right? So when you grow up in an environment like that, this is what happens, right? This, this, this is the outcome, right? Yeah. Devon Morris: No, I love it, and and and give me, you know, I want to hear a little bit more about the the essence of of why you wrote your book because just in that first chapter, you're telling me about your mom. So, what was the catalyst for actually writing that book? Bart Bailey: Yeah, so it goes back to that same thing, right? So this notion of why I did this, that, and the others. I, I will. I if I'm not, I'm not in my country right now, someplace else. But if I were in my office, I'd have piece of papers all over the place, right? Because, and even as a child, I didn't like to write, but but I would have to write something down. I have a thought, and be like, "Man, I got to write this down," right? And so, basically, that book, all those chapters were thoughts that that I was just writing, right? And to be honest with you, I was I was on a a Zoom call with somebody, and she's a Delta, and and she said, "Bart, you got to put that stuff in the book," because I told her I had I got I had this and I had that, and she was like, "You need to put that in the book." I was like, "What?" She's like, "I'm telling you, do it, right." And so that was the start of it. I had all the chapters separated, and then I worked with somebody else to kind of put it, put the flow together, and that was it. But but really, it's moments of like now, right? I got a Substack, and that Substack is crazy. Is in its thoughts, you know. I'll wake up in the middle of the night and go to my computer, start. I'll even, you know, what do you call it? Speech to text, right? And then I'll have all the notes, and then I'll type some more stuff, and I'll write some stuff, and then I'm like, you know what? I'm just gonna put this on Substack. Right, and so it was sort of like that. I had 18, 20 these little stories, and I said, "Let me put them together and put them in a book." Devon Morris: And what has been the response to that book, Bart Bailey: man? So I need to do better at doing the tour, but it's been good. And one of the things that in most of the chapters I have these reflective pieces. So when the book was released, we held conversations for a year, and the point was not don't tell me what's in the book because the reflective the reflective questions were around. So let me give it. So one of the things that I talk about is my mom had a sanctuary, and that was the library. And so we would get on these Zoom calls, and I say, "Okay, you read the book. That's cool. Now tell me about your sanctuary, and where did you where did you learn the importance of a sanctuary?" So we would have these monthly calls, and it would be about 15 or 20 people on there, and I would get to learn about my readers in their sanctuaries, right? And so the the that's been exceptional, and that's really what I wanted, right? I didn't want people to regurgitate, you know, read the book and regurgitate back to me what they read, but tell me how does this book relate to your life, to you, and who you are? Devon Morris: And then you you get to see it, man. But I'm curious, man. Tell us a little bit about what's in your bones, man. Bart Bailey: Yeah, I think the first piece that I shared, and then the flip side, you know, was my pops, right? And so my father, who who passed during COVID, he was in a nursing home, had some other pre-existing conditions, then got COVID, and it took him out May of 2020. But what I'll share with you, we started talking about fear, and he was one. Him and my uncle, who is still alive today, you know, would have these quotes around fear, right? Fear is okay, but particularly my uncle and my dad would say it too. You know, I don't fear no human or beast, right? And you know, except for God, right? And so, you know, that was part of it. And even with my dad, he wasn't one to say, you know, you're not gonna get the spanked. You're gonna get a spanking. But there was these layers around appreciating others, but this significant grounding around knowing who you are. Right, me and my sister again, you know that that were strong. Grew up in a house. Both my parents were active in civil rights. We knew that we were black African Americans, descendant of enslavement. We knew that we were beautiful. We knew that to honor who we are in our humanity. So those things are in our bones. Like we are, both of us are firmly grounded in our identity. I had an elder where I live at who passed away in August, and prior to her passing, we were on a phone call about a month before, and she says, "Boy, I got to tell you something. One thing about she said, I know a lot of people." She said, "But one thing I appreciate about you, and people use this term a lot, but you are seriously, unapologetically black. You honest, you honestly know who you are. She said, "I know people who are unapologetically black, but they don't know who they are." She says, "You know who you are. You stand firm on that." And I was like, "Be honest with you, Devon." That phone call, when she said it, affirmed some things that my mother had been talking to me about, and that call got emotional because you know I believe that that's part of what the answer to your question. What's in my bones is I think about how I navigate in the world. My family goes back to all four of my grandparents. Some plantation in either North Carolina, South Carolina. I am orphaned from Africa because I don't, I can't tell you where in Africa I descend from, so I'm orphan. So all of those things are in my bones, and it helps me stay grounded, and it and it informs how I navigate in this world, right? I'll notice things, and I and I you'll hear me say this about my body. My body will react before my mind is conscious, right? And so all of those things shape up and make who I am, and it's and joy too, right? And so even with what I'm saying, let me be clear. I'm talking about joy. I'm talking about trauma. I'm talking about sorrow. I'm talking about celebration. I'm talking about all of Devon Morris: it. Yeah, all all all the facets of human life is what it boils down to. And so I I man I man. I absolutely love that, you know, because I feel I feel the same way, right? You when you have it in your bones, you know where you're from. You walk around this world a little different than most people, and the thing that I would ask you is, what do you do when you start working with people or seeing people that's on teams or kids that you're working with, whoever it is, right? And they got something different in their bones. It's not serving them well. How do you, how do you help those kind of people? Bart Bailey: Yeah. So what I one of the things that I try to invite people into is dialog, right? And I and I make it depending on what it is, you know, I want to make it comfortable for folks, right? Now I don't, and I'll tell people I don't have any any problem with discomfort, I do have a problem with harm. I don't want people in the states of harm, but being discomfort is okay, right? So what I'll invite people in, and you know, let's say for example, you know, we could be at work, but I could use an example that's not work related, right? And say, hey, you know, you know, there's certain things that are in our bones that we're not even conscious of that are not serving us well. And I may use my whole, let's say, even today, right? I may say, you know what? You know, I was diagnosed with type two diabetes October of 2024. I'm firm on exercise and trying to eat healthy, but I also know, you know, I love my family, right? We have a we have a family reunion, you know, and in August, and you go down there, you know, we're gonna eat some food, right? And and and you know, my contribution to both the reunion and to Thanksgiving or Friendsgiving, which is coming up, is my grandmother's sweet potato dessert. And actually, it's not a dessert; it's it's a side dishes. Sweet potatoes and apples. Devon Morris: Okay. Bart Bailey: So it's awesome. It's amazing. It's in my bones. Like I don't even know the recipe. I can't tell you, but I know how to make it. Devon Morris: Wow. Yeah. Bart Bailey: But me consuming that thing, I am literally harming my body. Right. And so, so I could share that example with somebody like like my family expects me to make it every Thanksgiving. I'm probably going to have a spoonful or two, but I'm not going to do what I normally would do because you know it'd be on the plate. So so so so I may share that with somebody and say, let's talk about your practices. Let's talk about the work you do. Let's talk about the way you show up and engage with each other that you value. That may be something that that is ancient. You've been that's been passed down through generations of your family. That that's the way you do the thing. It shows up in your leadership. It shows up in the way you listen to people. It shows up in the way you see people, and how might that thing have a positive and non-positive in your ability to connect with this other human being? Right. So I've gave them the the sweet potatoes and apples example, and then I've asked them about this thing that they've been passed down, and then asked them how might it hinder their ability to connect with somebody's humanity. Typically, somebody will start to share. Devon Morris: So then, what I'll ask you is, what would you tell a leader whose team is behind right now and they actually know it? Bart Bailey: Yeah, you know, and let's let's link in that fear thing, right? Yeah. What I what I would share with this leader, I actually I wouldn't I wouldn't tell them. I would ask them, "What is your next step?" Right? I would ask them, "What is your next step?" Depending on the answer, right, and they can use beautiful words that are still tied to fear, or they can use words and language that say, "I'm going to go talk to my people and engage with Devon Morris: them." Bart Bailey: That leads to collaboration. That leads to listening. That leads to some some implementation of of efforts that are going to be sustainable. So depending on where they land, if that if the language is around dignity, respect, and sustainability, I'm going to back off. Let them do their thing. If they're if the language feels more like. Influence, power, fear, intimidation. I'm going to ask more questions so that they become conscious of it, right? And if if I can increase their awareness and conscious of of how those actions are not sustainable and are probably going to cause more harm than we're going to do that. Then I'm going to try and do that work with them to get them to realize it's not me telling. It's about folks understanding their behavior and the impact of the behavior. That's the only way for me and the way I do it, that I can have people what I would say understand their moral obligation to this person's humanity. Devon Morris: That was an amazing answer, and that really was my final question. So here's the deal, man: where should people find you, and let us know what's coming up for you. Bart Bailey: Yeah, thank you, thank you, thank you. So, definitely on LinkedIn, and you know, I will, I'll add, I'll share that link at some point. I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on Facebook. We do have our website for the businesses. It doesn't say courage. It says Courage to Care. It says C 2c Jedi, like the sword guy, jedi.com, and we'll we'll have that link as available as well. The other thing that you know, I said something off the top in terms of my health. I'm I'm having a retreat in April with a good friend of mine, Dr. Tanya Hampton, who's a breast cancer survivor, and we we talk about fear. And her book is the myth of the fearless leader. And so her and I are going to be talking about our our both our health journeys and both our books. And we're doing it at an interesting location. We're doing it about an hour of Sioux Falls, South Dakota, at this spot called Culture Cove. It used to be a hunting spot. It's it's owned by two black men. They got a full size boxing ring. Like it's it's it's it's wild. It's it's it's a nice spot. And so we'll be in Culture Cove in April 23 and 24th, doing this retreat around leadership and and health. Devon Morris: I love it, man. I love it, and we will have all the links. So if you're interested in connecting with Bart, you're interested in going to the conference because it sounds super amazing to me. Then we'll definitely position everybody to connect one and two attend if they're interested in attending. Bart, man, you've done, man, you you you've outdone yourself here, man. I don't even know what to say. You've outdone yourself, man. You know, I you know, I've been you know, it's one of those things where it's just like I'm a I'm a connect with that brother on something, and finally it's happened. So I'm gonna say to you, man, I appreciate you. Your story is amazing. I absolutely love it. It helps me to to grind in the fact that friendship is absolutely essential to the soul, and it's just one of those things, man. Where I appreciate you, and I, I love this. I love this for you. I love this for us to get to actually experience this through you. So on that note, we're gonna say bye to the audience here. And Bart, I might, I might have to bring you back, man. I mean, Bart Bailey: all right, all right. You like me Devon Morris: a little bit, so you come back, brother. Oh yeah, Bart Bailey: yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you know, you know, you you we got that bond, so you you ain't got to say nothing. Devon Morris: Appreciate you, man. So we'll say bye to everybody. So we'll see you all next time. Bye bye, everybody. Uh, and we'll see you in the next episode. Thank you for joining us. Where every Tuesday and Thursday, we work toward bridging the gap for teams that are behind.